Welcome to The Clinical Entrepreneur, a business podcast that’s dedicated to healthcare practitioners just like you who are hustling every day to build a business and a life you’re proud of. Join me, Ronda Nelson, as I share my own experiences and extract actionable advice from industry experts about what it takes to build and scale a profitable wellness practice
Ronda Nelson: Hi. This is Dr. Ronda Nelson. Welcome to The Clinical Entrepreneur Podcast. I am so glad that you joined me. Today, I’ve got another special friend of mine, Dr. Virginia Irby, who is going to be joining us to talk about all things blood testing, using labs in her practice, and how she does it very successfully. So, I’ve known Virginia for a long time and she and I have become friends over the years. I have so much respect and appreciation for her clinical insight, but also her ability to run a very successful practice, manage her staff, her team, and get exceptional results for her patients. So, Virginia, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Thank you so much, Dr. Ronda. I’m glad to be here.
Ronda Nelson: Well, we had a little mishap a minute ago. We were partway through this interview and I looked up and I realized I hadn’t hit the record button. So, for the first few minutes here, I’m going to hear the same thing again, but we’re going to pretend like you all have never heard it before. So, Virginia, tell me a little bit about your practice. Tell me how long you’ve been working in this field and a little bit of your background, so all of the listeners get to know you a little bit better.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Okay. I’ve been a chiropractor since 1981 and when I became disabled from chiropractic, I started to study nutrition. I’ve been doing that for about 13 years now. I just threw myself into it full blast, took every seminar you ever gave, plus like 60 more. And that was the foundation of my current success, I believe. I believe that without education, you can’t expect to be successful. I treat my patients the same way and I educate them to the best of my ability. I think education is crucial especially when it comes to lab work. They understand their labs better than their doctors do when I’m done with them.
Ronda Nelson: And as it should be, because if we don’t educate them, where are they going to go? They’re going to go to Dr. Google and they’re going to get a bad education there, or they just going to sit back and go, “Oh, well, it says my cholesterol is high at 201 so I guess I better go on a statin, or I guess I better go on a crazy radical diet.” When we have the ability to educate them, we can really start to shape and change the trajectory of their health just by helping them understand what these labs mean. So, tell me how the labs come into play in your clinic when you’re working with patients. What’s that entry point look like for you?
Dr. Virginia Irby: There are a couple of different ways. First, I don’t do any marketing or any advertising so all of my patients are by referral. So, when a new patient calls our chiropractic clinic, that patient has often already been told what they can expect. There’s a letter that goes out with my bio and what I do, all in a welcome packet, which also offers a 15-minute free consultation with me. And so, when that happens, the staff is very well-trained and they will remind the patient when they make their appointment to book the 15-minute free consult and to bring any lab work that they have, so I can review it. They’re also given the system survey form so that there’s a generalized idea of what I’m going to be looking for.
Ronda Nelson: Right! You’ve trained your front desk staff to educate and set the expectations for the patient, so when that patient comes in for that free 15-minute appointment, they’re primed and ready to go. You have everything you need and they know what to bring so you are able to look at their labs and at their system survey. Where do you go with them during that conversation? Because, obviously, the goal is we want to take that patient, give them lots of value during that 15-minute appointment, and bring them under your care so you can start to really work on addressing their health concerns. So, what happens during that 15-minute appointment? There’s not very much time for you to go over a whole big long blood lab. So, how do you manage that?
Dr. Virginia Irby: I jump over the whole thing at that point. What I do is look at their chief complaints. I say, “What can I do for you? Why are you here? What can I do to help you?” They will start giving information, some of them are talkers but most of them know they’ve only got 15 minutes, so they want me to talk more to them, than them talking to me. I look at their chief complaints. I scan down through their system survey and I say, “We’ll go over this in more detail if you decide that you want to become a full-time patient. But for now, I just want to see what the highlights are and see if there’s something I can do to help you.” I’ll look at the system survey, I’ll look at their chief complaint, and I’ll point some things out, saying, “I can see that you’ve marked a lot of them in this group. This is upper digestion. So, if you’re not digesting or if you’re constipated, or gas and bloating, blah, blah, blah, then those are some things that we can work on. But it also affects your labs. So, if you look at your labs here as well, you can see your protein’s low. Your liver enzymes are a titch high. That can indicate a fatty liver.” So, I’m letting them know in a very short period of time, that I know what the heck I’m talking about.
These are things that their doctor may not have mentioned and they may say, “Well, my doctor said everything was normal.” I will reply, “Yes, but look at the range on this. You can drive a truck through that range. You want to be able to drive a mini car through there.” So I draw them the bell curve as you showed us, right? “This is the range. Here’s where you are. Do you think that’s normal? Well, no, not really. How about that brand? Do you think that’s normal? No, because if it goes one more point, you’re going to be an abnormal range. So, I like to be moving the functional range.” I’m mostly educating them, not telling them what’s wrong with them. I am showing them the fact that when I look at things, I look at them differently. That’s how I use the labs in that first 15-minute part.
Ronda Nelson: I love that because what you’re doing really, as you’re using those labs, is giving them hope. You’re establishing your credibility, but you’re also saying, “Look, you could drive a truck through that range and you see that you’re far into that range, and your doctor said it’s normal. But, if you go two or three more points, you’re going to be outside the range and now we have a problem. So, how about we fix it?” You’re not only giving them value, but you’re giving them hope because you’re showing them what’s possible. I also love that you are able to correlate the labs well enough to then show the primary complaint, like digestion. When you start seeing liver, calcium, or iron low, you can say, “Do you see how you said digestion? Well, these are the markers on the blood test that match that.” It starts really giving credibility to you as a practitioner. So, how many of those patients that come through that 15-minute appointment, would you say convert into wellness patients?
Dr. Virginia Irby: 100%.
Ronda Nelson: 100%. So, everyone that you see converts over, and why do you think that is?
Dr. Virginia Irby: I think it’s because they’re looking for solutions and no one has given them this option. And I just explain to them and say “I just have different tools in my toolbelt. Your medical doctor has a certain set of tools that they were given to them in medical school. I’ve got a different set of tools. So, if there’s an electrician trying to fix a broken plumbing problem, they’re not going to be able to do that. You’ve just previously called the wrong person to support you.” I have different tools and they can look around my office and see that I have different tools. I’ve got my test kits up on the wall. I’ve got my supplements. I’ve got my herbs. I’ve got my liquid herbs. So, they’ve never been in an office that looks like that.
Ronda Nelson: Yeah. So, when you convert them over, as we’re talking about blood labs, you’re really using the blood lab as a tool to help correlate that initial appointment and what their symptoms are. Then once you bring them on for care, you’re now really working with them from a holistic or a functional alternative standpoint. You’re getting to the root cause of whatever it is that’s going on with them. Now, where does your blood work go from there? Do you dive into their existing blood labs right away when they make their next appointment? Are you looking at the blood labs as being the thing that’s going to guide your treatment plan? Or do you have a different way you’re using those labs clinically?
Dr. Virginia Irby: That’s a good question because every practitioner is going to have their own process and I think blood labs can be incorporated into any process. I wouldn’t say they’re my foundation, although they’re very important. I will do a ZYTO scan on every patient when they come in, that’s just one of the things that I use. I’m a muscle tester, so I also use muscle testing. But when a patient brings labs in, they look at that as the holy grail of their health standard.
Ronda Nelson: So true. So true.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Right?
Ronda Nelson: Yeah.
Dr. Virginia Irby: They look at that and say, “If my labs are good, I’m healthy.” I show them that that’s not always true when we do our thing, but when there are abnormal labs, I use those to my advantage. So, whatever they’ve got, I’ve become very familiar with their labs and I draw or highlight them. I will put arrows up and down on them and I write myself notes to double-check this, double-check that, or this relates to this. So if a patient came in today, for example, and she has anemia, her mean corpuscular volume is really high, but she can’t figure out what’s wrong with her, and her B12 is 300. I would say, “Okay, so do you see how when we fix B12, it’s going to fix the mean corpuscular volume. Next, your thyroid, that’s all wonky and is being affected because of your anemia. You can’t have anemia and have a happy thyroid.” So, she says, “So, you’re telling me that all of this is about my upper digestion?” She has SIBO and a bunch of other stuff, right? I say, “So, the key is to fix your digestion. It may not seem like I’m working on anything, but we are working on everything in your digestion and these labs over time are going to change.”
Ronda Nelson: So, how much drawing do you do? I do a lot of drawing with my patients. My clinic is virtual now, but when I had a physical brick-and-mortar, I had a huge whiteboard in my office and I drew on it all the time. I have found and I still believe that a picture is worth 1,000 words. And if you can draw it in a picture, they will retain it a lot better, they can make a story around the picture, and their compliance goes way up. So, how much or if any of that do you do?
Dr. Virginia Irby: A ton. On the back of my supplement schedule, it will look like a kindergartener drew all over the damn thing by the time I’m done. And they take that home with them. They always ask for the original. I keep the copy. They take the original.
Ronda Nelson: That’s so great.
Dr. Virginia Irby: I would draw on there everything from upper digestion, the stomach, the pH, have a liver, and the pancreas jump in. If they’ve got a thyroid issue, there’ll be a thyroid picture on there with the flowcharts and all the stuff. If they’ve got blood sugar issues that arteries, arterioles, capillaries, and red blood cells with razor wire on them ripping their way through the capillary system. I’m drawing all over it and they love it. They were going, “Do I get that? Do I get that?” Because then here’s the other thing that happens. I don’t just have single people in my practice. I have families.
Ronda Nelson: Oh, good to know.
Dr. Virginia Irby: It’s been a passion of mine forever, since I got into chiropractic college, to have a family practice. When I stopped doing chiropractic and started doing nutrition, it’s the same for me. So when the patient takes the picture home and tells their significant other or their mom or dad, their cousin, their uncle, or even a pal who’s concerned about their health, they’re repeating the story, like you said, the story. They’re repeating the story of what I told them on the back of that sheet and how it relates. It does two things. It justifies the cost of my visit and their care to their significant other because that’s often a big deal. “Well, this is what she said. She said I have this blood sugar issue and I have this digestive issue and I have to fix them or else this doesn’t work.” So, they get to repeat that story, which cements it into their own motivation to do what I said and to follow their care protocol. But also, it’s educating someone else and when you teach someone else about it, then that’s the best.
Ronda Nelson: And those are the people that come in and they start saying, “Oh, my gosh, I need to go in and see her too.” You start to have that ripple effect that goes out, all because you focused on just one thing. But you just took that one thing, using it whether it’s a blood test or a symptom survey, and you take that one thing and you turn it into an educational tool or a point from which you can educate. Then that ripple effect starts to spread. So, how do you use blood testing in your practice as far as follow-ups go? They walk in with blood tests and we know that often the blood tests are pretty skimpy these days. There’s not a lot on them. If they’re ordered and paid for by insurance, we know that they’re pretty light compared to what they used to be. So, what do you do with them at that point? And how do you follow that all the way through as part of what you’re doing to measure your progress?
Dr. Virginia Irby: So, what I do, and like you said, they’re like skeleton labs nowadays, it’s just like the skeletal surface. It’s not filled in at all. So, if the patient’s chief complaint isn’t covered completely by their labs, then I will oftentimes recommend that we do follow-ups and I like to spend money on their protocols, not on a bunch of tests. That’s just my own personal way…
Ronda Nelson: Preach it, sister. Preach it. You’re speaking my language. I’m so not a tester either.
Dr. Virginia Irby: I’m not a huge test person. So if they have insurance, I will oftentimes write them a list of labs that I want for follow-up and I’ll say, “Take this to your primary care physician. You know why we need them, I drew you all the pictures. Then when you get to your next lab visit, your next medical doctor visit, whether it’s virtual or in-person, these are the labs I need to follow through and this is the why.” So, if their doctor refuses, they will just tell me because I’ve told them “I can order labs very inexpensively.” They’ll just tell me, “The doctor won’t do them. Just order them for me.” So they want answers and some of them are like bulldogs. They’ll go to their doctor and say, “Listen, I talked to my nutrition person and this is what she needs. So, give it to her.” There are other people who are very meek and mild, and they’re not going to say “BOO” to anybody. So they come to me and say, “Just order me the labs.” If they don’t give me answers and I can’t get them any other way, then that’s what they’ll do. Oftentimes, what’s really nice about it is when we get the answers, I already know the answers, right?
Ronda Nelson: Yeah.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Before I order the labs, I already know the freakin answer.
Ronda Nelson: Right. We know what the story is going to be already.
Dr. Virginia Irby: We do. We know the end of the story, but the patient doesn’t. And so, oftentimes when we’re ordering labs, it’s so the patient has some sense of “I know what I’m talking about and they know that I know.”
Ronda Nelson: That’s right. Yeah, and it allows them to see. They are able to see the change, so when you start to do those retests, whether it’s in three months or six months, they start to see change. “The ALT was high or they had a difference in like neutrophils and lymphocytes on a CBC, or you start to see glucose in A1c or you see the lipid panels start to change.” Those are the things that they’re going to know about, right? They start to see those changes and all of a sudden, they’re, A, feeling better and, B, you just became the superhero of the show because you know what you’re talking about and you’re helping them get better.
Dr. Virginia Irby: And we don’t need as many labs after they understand that what I am saying, works. Then they’re like going, “Okay. Well, I can do my labs every six months.” Some people come in and their doctors have been saying, “The lab, to the lab, to the lab, to the lab, to the lab, to the lab,” just ruling out all bad stuff or just testing things that are immaterial and not changing. And so, people get used to having labs that say nothing and they don’t do anything about them.
Ronda Nelson: Yeah, there’s no outcome with those labs.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Right, it’s just the same. I had a guy come in two days ago. He said, “Well, my liver labs have been high for 10 years.” I’m like, “Why?” That’s always my question. Why? He said, “I don’t know, they’re always just high.” I’m like, “Okay. Well, then so we have to trace it back. What happened when they started going high? Did you get sick?” “Well, yeah, I had a virus.” “Okay. Well, then let’s go down that rabbit hole.”
Ronda Nelson: There you go. Yeah.
Dr. Virginia Irby: So, I’m really anxious to see his follow-up labs because when you change people’s stuff that they’ve had for a really long time and you are the spark to that change, they’re your patient forever.
Ronda Nelson: Forever. They won’t go anywhere.
Dr. Virginia Irby: You become their doctor.
Ronda Nelson: How do you manage the follow-up? Let’s say you work with someone for six months, nine months a year, whatever the length of time is, and they are feeling amazing. How often do you do those blood retests or do you do them?
Dr. Virginia Irby: Great question. That depends on the age of the patient.
Ronda Nelson: Oh, yes. Yep.
Dr. Virginia Irby: So, when a patient is over 65 and they’re a senior, you can sometimes get their labs every six months to a year depending on their doctor. I will view their lab every six months when they come in. And then in the meantime, I usually will have a phone consult with them, especially if they’re distant. I’ll have a phone consult with them every two or three months, see how they’re doing, tweak their protocol accordingly, and say, “Okay, we’re moving forward. You saw this on your last labs, I want to make sure that we’re continuing to make progress on that. I’m going to keep some of that in protocol until we get our next follow-ups. If everything looks amazing, those will drop off and we’ll look at what’s new.” So, that’s what I do with my elder patients. And then with my younger patients, if they’ve got an acute issue, let’s say it’s a thyroid case we’re working on the prostate or a fatty liver, which is super common these days, or blood sugar’s huge, even amongst my teenagers.
And so, with blood sugar issues, I want them tested in three months. I want them to see progress. Once they get out of the pre-diabetic range, I change their diet. I’m like, “Okay. Well, now we can do a little bit more. We have a little bit of freedom.” And then six months, if you’re back to where you were, then this is a permanent lifestyle change for you.
Ronda Nelson: Right. So, the blood labs then provide guideposts for you as far as directing your protocol. Do you use only blood labs to do that as they come in or do you have other tests that you use to measure their progress? Because as you mentioned earlier, I don’t like to do a whole bunch of testing. I’d rather them spend their money on the things that are going to help them get better, rather than spending thousands of dollars on tests. So, if I’m not going to test a lot but I will do blood labs because, A, the patient values them, has high regard for them and, B, it really can give you a lot of insight about changes and they’re inexpensive, relatively speaking. So, are there any other tests that you use to kind of monitor progress? How do you manage that long-term?
Dr. Virginia Irby: Well, I mean, I have a couple of tools in my office. I have a heart scan, a cardio scanner that I use for the heart stuff. And then oftentimes, if I’ve got a cardiac patient, then I will use that data to support any changes we’re making nutritionally.
Ronda Nelson: Is that a heart sound recorder?
Dr. Virginia Irby: It is not. It’s called CardioScan.
Ronda Nelson: Okay, got it. I just want to make sure. Okay, got it. So, you’re using it to corroborate, so to speak, or create a baseline so that you can see, especially with a cardiovascular patient, you are seeing changes.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Absolutely. I use that and they love it because it’s a three-minute test that gives me a ton of information. They can see it from visit-to-visit how it’s changing, with a cardiac patient. I also use, like I said, my ZYTO. I will use saliva testing on patients who need it. I don’t do a ton of them. I use hair analysis on those who needed or request it. So, I have tools that I’ve used over the years. Like I said, I’m not a huge test person. And so, when you need it, you use it. And then there are those times when you don’t need it, you’re getting improvement, and the patient’s the one that kind of helps to guide that process. Now, anemia patients, I do retest. So, if an anemia patient comes in, I will definitely retest an anemia patient 90 days.
Ronda Nelson: Because you got to make sure you’re making progress there. That’s super important. Anemia is the big deal breaker. You can’t fix anything if they’re anemic.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Right. And I explain it to them and I draw them the pictures. These are tiny red blood cells. These are iron deficient. This is normal. It’s like the Three Bears, right? Goldilocks and the Three Bears. You’ve got your tiny ones that don’t do much of anything, you’ve got your good-sized ones, and you’ve got your giant ones. And so, we have to identify which ones they have and I educate them about the problems with those two extremes. If they’re too tiny, they don’t carry any oxygen. They don’t do anything. If they’re too big, they don’t fit down the tiny pipes. So, you got to have the right size and only 13% of them. So, you just got to make sure everything’s all fitting like it’s supposed to.
Ronda Nelson: So, when you have that blood test and you’re ready to do their follow-up, let’s say you’re done with getting them every three months. You have anemia taken care of. You’ve got glucose taken care of, and the patient is really ready to go on some kind of a maintenance program. Now, how do you use a blood test to get them to come in for those follow-up appointments? Do you have a system? Do you have a reminder system? How do you manage that so that you can keep, I think there are two goals there? One is you want to continue to provide care for the patient, but you want to keep them on target because we know if we leave these patients to their own devices, they end up in the weeds. So, how do you manage that follow-up using those blood labs in your practice?
Dr. Virginia Irby: So, again, it goes back to education to a degree. I educate my patients. When you get your new labs, email them to me, fax them to me, take a picture of them on your phone, text them to me, and we’ll set up an appointment. I get them all the time. So with our six-month labs, my patients just send them to me. When any new labs come in, the staff calls them and if they don’t already have an appointment, I have them set up an appointment. If I’ve ordered the labs and I want them redone in six months, I put them on the appointment book four or five-and-a-half months, the staff calls them and says, “Hey, so it’s time for your new labs. Let’s get that scheduled.” That way as soon as the labs get ordered and we get the results back, they’re called to schedule an appointment.
Ronda Nelson: Okay. So, there’s a kind of a twofold process that you’ve trained them on. I think that’s probably the biggest thing. You’ve really educated them and let them know that when they do have those retests in their hand, they’re going to get them over to you so that you can look at them from your unique perspective and look at the pre and the post to see what kind of progress you’ve made. How many patients would you say have tracked with you using that kind of system over time? Percentage.
Dr. Virginia Irby: I have a lot of long-standing patients. So, I would say probably 50%.
Ronda Nelson: So, your attrition is pretty low, relatively speaking. I mean, if people are staying with you long-term, they’re getting those tests to you. They’re staying on top of their protocol. How do you handle their maintenance protocol? Do they have to come in, in between those blood tests? Or do you just put them on a basic kind of a maintenance type support where you’re giving them omega-3s or whatever they need? You put them on a maintenance protocol and then they come in and get the new test. And at that point, I’m assuming you’re going to modify their protocol if needed.
Dr. Virginia Irby: So, depending on their health state, if they’re very healthy patients, then I’ll see them every six months when their labs get renewed. If they are less than healthy, I’ll see them every two, three months when they’re working on a specific problem. Sometimes monthly in the beginning but I’m not talking about acute patients, right? We’re talking about long-standing patients.
Ronda Nelson: Exactly. So, ones you’ve been working with for 10 years.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Right. Usually, they are every six months.
Ronda Nelson: Yeah. So, you do a full comprehensive panel at six months or do you just do the pieces that you need to look at?
Dr. Virginia Irby: Full.
Ronda Nelson: You do a full panel every six months.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Again, depending on their age. If I’m only working on the thyroid patient, then I’m just going to do thyroid. If I’m working on someone who is over 50, I’m doing a full panel because a lot changes can happen in six months and they get lazy and they start drinking. In six months, you can go from not a diabetic to pre-diabetic.
Ronda Nelson: Yep. Boy, I’ve seen that so many times. It’s so true. We often think that we’re going to do these labs annually, I know I used to do that, and it was okay. You could get away with just doing them once a year if they had a history of behaving themselves. But today, diets are often so much worse and now we’re in the middle of this COVID mess. I’m finding that diets tend to be even a little bit worse, alcohol consumption seems to go up, and they really need us to be able to help keep an eye on things for them. This way they don’t end up out in the left-field somewhere, with us having to reel them back in and costing them more time and money to get it fixed, rather than them trying and keeping themselves on the train track.
Dr. Virginia Irby: And that’s what I tell them too. I tell them, I say, “It’s so much less expensive for you to stay healthy than it is to get healthy.”
Ronda Nelson: So agree. So agree.
Dr. Virginia Irby: If you deviate from the path too far, if I see you in a year and you’ve deviated far from the path, how much is it going to cost you to get back on track? They already know that answer because we’ve already done it. So, we touch base every three months, we have a phone call 15 minutes or 30 minutes, we just touch base and review what’s going on with them. Are you still sleeping? Are you still pooping? Are you still doing all the things you’re supposed to do? And if all those things are working, then we’re good. We do a maintenance protocol, multivitamin, mineral, tuna, stuff like that.
Ronda Nelson: Right.
Dr. Virginia Irby: But if they’re not, then we do something different.
Ronda Nelson: That’s the thing, it gives you that regular check-in and gives you the ability to manage and modify as you need to, depending on their unique situation. That’s one of the reasons why I love using blood tests because the blood test is the test that the patient has so much belief in already. When we can build off of the blood test, not use it exclusively, but when we can actually build from it and create direction, guidance, recommendations, diet, lifestyle, protocols, supplements, herbs, nutrients, minerals, whatever it is, the patient then has that benchmark to be able to look at what the improvement is. I love that you do that same thing, that’s why you and I are so much alike. We practice the same. We think the same and I so appreciate that about you. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today and bearing with me not hitting the record button before we went live. However, this ended up working out just wonderfully. It’s perfect. So, Virginia, where can people get a hold of you if they’d like to get a hold of you? You write a blog. Is that correct?
Dr. Virginia Irby: I do. My daughter takes care of all my social media. So, we’re on Instagram and we’re on Facebook and my website has all my blog articles. She makes me write like one or two articles a month.
Ronda Nelson: Good for her. What’s your website so people can find you?
Dr. Virginia Irby: Cascadechiros… at www… I don’t know. I’m going to have to get that to you.
Ronda Nelson: It’s okay. Clearly, you have been helping patients. Not worried about the website which is great.
Dr. Virginia Irby: I didn’t do anything social media-wise. Zero.
Ronda Nelson: I’ll tell you what, I will make sure everything’s for you in the show notes. I can feel your pain sister over there. I get it. I always say, “Find your lane. Stay in your lane.” When you start getting out of your lane, things get bumpy like you start crashing. Just get in your car, stay in your lane. So, clearly, your lane is very exceptional at dealing with patients and we’ll leave the social media to your staff. They’ll get it to me, I’m sure.
Dr. Virginia Irby: Right. They certainly will.
Ronda Nelson: Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me. And for the rest of you that are listening, again, I’m so grateful that you’ve tuned in to The Clinical Entrepreneur Podcast. Again, I’m your host, Ronda Nelson. Be sure that you pick up and subscribe to this podcast from wherever you listen. All you got to do is hit the subscribe button. Our episodes come out every single Tuesday and the goal is really to give you the tools that you need to be able to grow and scale a thriving profitable practice and have a greater impact on even more people. So, thank you, Virginia, and thank you, everyone, for joining. I’ll see you next week.
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